#306: Why HSPs Struggle with Clutter and What Actually Helps

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Grit ‘n’ Grace — The Podcast for Highly Sensitive Christian Women

#306: Why HSPs Struggle with Clutter and What Actually Helps

[00:00:00] Speaker A: When clutter piles up in our homes, it’s not just stuff. For many of us who are highly sensitive persons, we can experience it as visual noise, decision fatigue, emotional stories, sensory input, and shame. So much shame.

So in this episode, my dear friend and co author Kathy Lipp and I explore why everyday home management can feel uniquely overwhelming for HSPs and how we can learn to respond with practical compassion instead of all or nothing thinking.

You’ll learn why tidying up a space can help your nervous system exhale, why systems often collapse when life happens, and how to create a simple stabilizing day rather than trying to catch up on everything all at once.

Kathy also shares three small re entry steps for those moments when home feels absolutely out of control.

This episode is a gentle invitation to stop asking why can’t I keep up? And to start asking what might help my HSP nervous system take the next small step.

Welcome to Grit and Grace, the podcast for highly sensitive Christian women.

I’m your host, Sherri Gregory. Are you tired of the overthinking, overwhelm and exhaustion that can come with being a highly sensitive person?

Are you ready to stop worrying that something’s wrong with you and start understanding and nurturing yourself as an hsp?

Together we’ll build resilience, practice self compassion, set healthy boundaries, unlock your creativity and learn to embrace, not fight, your God given sensitivity.

Let’s dig in.

Hey friend, I’m so glad you’re joining me today. Today’s episode is part one of the two part conversation I recently recorded with my dear friend, co author and longtime collaborator Kathy Lipp. We originally recorded it for her Clutter Free Academy podcast, but afterwards I asked Kathy if she’d be willing to share the files with me to edit into Grit and Grace episodes and she generously said sure.

So a few months back I asked members of the Sensitive and Strong Community Cafe this question. Kathy Lipp and I are recording a Clutter Free Academy episode specifically for HSPs. What questions about clutter organization and or home management would you love for us to discuss?

Well, our members submitted a bunch of great questions that you’re going to hear Kathy and I talking through this week and next week.

But before we dive in for anyone who isn’t familiar with Kathy, let me give you her official bio. Kathy Lipp loves to walk with women who are decluttering every part of their lives, from their homes to their unhelpful beliefs. Kathy Lipp is the Publisher’s Weekly best selling author of 20 books including Sabbath Soup, the Accidental Homesteader Overwhelmed and clutter free.

Kathy is the host of Clutter Free Academy Podcast, Clutter Free Facebook group and Clutter Free for Life Community.

Kathy lives in her red house Mini homestead with her husband Roger, nine pound dog Moose, and regularly hosts their blended family of six writers retreats and loads of people they love.

And then this part is just from me. Kathy and I have been friends for two decades now and she is absolutely the most generous and supportive person I know.

So here’s Kathy to kick off this episode.

[00:03:49] Speaker B: Well, this is the Sherry A Sherry show of all shows because we are talking about something that is near and dear to your heart, something that I have seen you evolve with over the years. And it’s three little letters. Hsp.

Could you explain to our audience hsp. And by the way guys, if you are not an hsp, my guess is that you love one in your life. And so this show, whether you are one or love somebody who is, is for you. So Sheri, give us the rundown.

[00:04:24] Speaker A: Sure. HSP stands for Highly Sensitive Person and

[00:04:27] Speaker A: it is about 20 to 30% of the population. So you are spot on. You know, I will say, I was having a convers the other day with some sister hsps. We really wish they had named it Highly Perceptive Person or Highly Reflective Person. That word sensitive doesn’t necessarily resonate with everybody. So if you don’t like hsp, just think of it as Highly Perceptive Person and that works just fine.

[00:04:50] Speaker B: Okay, and today we’re talking about clutter and the Highly sensitive person or Highly Perceptive person. Why is everyday home management? What are the special challenges? That’s what I want to ask. What are the special challenges that come from being a highly sensitive person when it comes to things that we all think of as bait? Now, I’m not saying we all think it’s easy and highly sensitive people don’t, because if you’re listening to this podcast, we all have this challenge, right? Or if you’re on this podcast, we have this challenge. Exactly what are some special maybe twist to the feeling of being overwhelmed by everyday home management?

[00:05:35] Speaker A: Well, just real quickly the the five

[00:05:36] Speaker A: key qualities of an of a highly sensitive person. And I’m just going to read them straight from the book here. First of all, HSPs tend to need more time than the average bear to process. Often I have no idea what I’m thinking until 24 to 48 hours after a topic has been brought up. We are easily overstimulated and that’s the five senses which we’ll be talking about in terms of clinical clutter and home management. The third is that HSPs tend to feel our own emotions very intensely.

We have a kind of a wider palette of emotions in terms of range of maybe if you think of them as colors. We are highly empathetic, so we often read the room and we’re so, we’re not only feeling our own emotions, we’re feeling other people’s emotions. And then we tend to notice nuances. Often we notice things that others don’t notice. And so just from a very practical standpoint, the sensory overwhelm. The sensory processing sensitivity, which is actually where it got its name originally.

Often the visual stimuli of managing a home, the auditory stimuli, even in the kitchen, the olfactory smelling things, tasting things, the texture of things. It’s all so much. There’s just so much muchness.

And that can really contribute to decision fatigue, which you and I have talked and written about at length.

[00:06:54] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. So it’s. It’s a lot of more.

[00:06:59] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:06:59] Speaker B: You know, you and I went out to dinner last night because we happened to be in the same place and I was wearing a newest shirt and it had a little plastic tag in the back that Roger was not able to get out. It was. I tried to get it out when I got home and I finally just took a pair of scissors to it. And at dinner I was able to forget about it.

Yeah. I was able to go. Yeah, exactly. And so that’s why. That’s what I wanted to bring up. Yeah. Is it’s just these little nuances that if, if you had been wearing that, perhaps other things would have had to have happened. Yeah. And I see you working with tools all the time to make sure that you can continue on.

[00:07:44] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:07:45] Speaker B: But you have to take care of yourself in a different way than I do.

[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah.

[00:07:48] Speaker A: What you’re describing with that is that you were able to stay in your window of tolerance. You were able to shut out stimuli and stay present.

For those of us who have sensory processing sensitivity, we’re always watching for. Are we. Are we about to dysregulate? Are we about to. You know, the old fashioned term would be to have a meltdown, which is really embarrassing when you’re a grown adult. It’s just, it’s no fun. And so the things that we need to keep us in that window of tolerance and to keep us. And it’s. It’s not that we’re precious snowflakes. It’s not that we need everybody else to tippy toe around us. It is about being Aware of what our own particular constellation of sensitivities is so that we can then be aware of the needs, take care of those needs, that we can live the way God created us to live. Because there’s. There’s a lot of benefits and gifts that come along with being an hsp.

[00:08:34] Speaker B: And I want to say something to this really quickly. You know, the. The whole meltdown thing. Right. And you say, well, that’s embarrassing as an adult.

Circumstances can change in anybody’s life where what was tolerable one day is no longer tolerable. I used to be able to be in the sunshine. I didn’t enjoy it, but you know, like in the heat now because of my long Covid, I literally cannot.

I’ll start crying because it makes me so sick to my stomach.

[00:09:07] Speaker A: Wow.

[00:09:07] Speaker B: And so your circumstances can change. So if you think people should just suck it up, I pray that God does not have to teach you a lesson in a way that you would not want to be taught. Just. Just a thought here, because. No, these are all people just trying to get through the day. Okay, Sheri, why is clutter sometimes more detrimental to somebody who’s an HSP than to the rest of the population?

[00:09:37] Speaker A: There are numerous reasons I could cite. I’m going to really focus in on the number one quality of being an hsp, which is this deep processing, being a reflective thinker. And it can be a huge positive, but it can also spiral into rumination.

And so, you know, the three questions that you have us ask when we’re looking at whether something is clutter or not, it can be very easy for us to really latch onto one of those and really focus in on, well, I really don’t use it, but so and so gave it to me. And then some of those other qualities, like, oh, our empathy for them, you know, our emotional attachment to the person, or our fear that if they come to the house and they see we’ve gotten rid of it. No, no, I can’t bear thought like that would be overwhelming. That would be so over stimulating.

[00:10:26] Speaker B: Right.

[00:10:26] Speaker A: Often boundaries are a bit of an issue. And so we can look at one single item that another person might look at and go, just get rid of it.

[00:10:34] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:10:35] Speaker A: You know, the whole exercise of turning your. Your hangers around and if you haven’t worn something in six months, just get rid of them. It can be so easy for everything to become a story.

[00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:10:44] Speaker A: To become this epic that we can’t get out of the one and done. Decision making can be extremely hard if we don’t have tools to help us do it.

[00:10:54] Speaker B: All I can think about is Emily Gilmore dragging all of the gifts that Trixie, her mother in law has given them up there because she, she doesn’t want to experience the wrath of that. Now let’s be clear. Emily Gilmore was not a highly sensitive person. But you know, I, you, you think about that, all the ramifications. I love the, your talk about rumination. Okay, so we did something that I think, I think is fun that you went to your community, your sensitive and strong community, which is a paid community where people who are HSPs have a place to gather and learn and grow. And I love this so much. And you asked them to talk to us about clutter. So I picked some of the questions. I’m going to post these questions to the both of us so that we can talk them through through.

So Sheri, the first question I pulled out, what do we do when our systems work for a while but then life happens? Sick kids, vacation, school breaks, exhaustion and everything collapses.

So can you tell me what the special challenge for somebody who’s an hsp?

Why something going off the rails even slightly could be an issue?

[00:12:18] Speaker A: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I can give you two quick things. One is the amount of all or nothing thinking. In fact, in the Sensitive and Strong Community Cafe for this year, our theme is the word. And that’s it. That’s the entire theme for the year. And learning that two things can be true. This and this can be true. Rather than, you know, this or that, you know, the, the, the unnecessary forced alternatives. And so I’m either using my systems perfectly or I’m a complete fail.

[00:12:49] Speaker B: Right.

[00:12:49] Speaker A: Everything is terrible and either I’m going to get it perfectly back up to speed again or I’ll never use the system again.

[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yes.

[00:12:57] Speaker A: And so we have to get away from the all or nothing thinking. And then the second thing that’s become so clear to me in terms of being so important, especially for HSPs, I think it’s important for all humans. But HSPS is self compassion because what ends up happening is we beat ourselves up and, and we’re not going to make progress, we’re not going to get back to the system working and we’re not going to have curiosity about, well, why did the system fall apart? How can I adapt it? Maybe the fact that I’ve fallen off of using it is an indication that I need to adjust it in some way. And so when we can have curiosity and compassion, that’s going to make a huge difference in incrementally getting back on track and adapting the system so that it works better the next time around.

[00:13:45] Speaker B: Yes. I love this so much. Because a bad day is not proof that your system failed.

[00:13:51] Speaker A: Ah, love that.

[00:13:53] Speaker B: It may need a tweak or, you know, you and I were talking about this yesterday.

If a system only works when you’re at 100%, that’s a terrible system. Right?

[00:14:04] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:14:06] Speaker B: You know, so asking yourself, what is the next small step instead of everything is broken, I can’t keep up. I’m never going to get this together.

So I think the first thing is, and this is really hard, this is like, you know, expert level. But trying to remove some of the shame.

[00:14:25] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:14:26] Speaker B: By saying, I don’t need to abandon the plan. I need a re entry plan.

[00:14:32] Speaker A: Ooh, I love that.

[00:14:33] Speaker B: It’s not a catch up on everything, it’s a reentry. So for an hsp, here are three things that I feel like could be helpful.

Number one, deal with anything that smells, spills, or blocks food.

So that means trash dishes, old food, lunch boxes, water bottles, the counter space that you need for making a meal. Yesterday for me, it was all the ants invading our rv.

You’re not doing the whole kitchen. You know, you’re not reorganizing the Tupperware drawer. This is not going into the pantry. Not reorganizing the fridge is. How can I make food without crying? Because an HSP needs to be fed and needs to be taken care of and your family needs to be fed. And so that would be the place I would start. Then I would look at your laundry and is there anything that I absolutely need for tomorrow? I’m thinking especially things like uniforms for work or for school.

Or is there a comfort item in there that you, you know, you would just feel so much better if your favorite sweatshirt was available.

Or I’m out of underwear. Like, think about, what do I need for tomorrow?

To start with a fresh breath.

And then.

So instead of saying, I’m going to do the whole house, you’re going to do the things that are blocking food. You’re going to make sure that one load of laundry is run that can help you find your equilibrium for tomorrow. And then I would say the third thing is create one visual exhale.

[00:16:30] Speaker A: I love that.

[00:16:31] Speaker B: Pick up one surface or space, whether that’s the kitchen table, the cat, something. Not something new, but something that you know. Like when I go into the bathroom and the counter is clear, I feel better. Or when my nightstand has all my stuff on it so that you know that Peace is possible. And maybe all you get to look at that night is that one space.

I just want you to have that place to start. Instead of thinking I have to redo

[00:17:02] Speaker A: the whole house, you’re helping me understand why. Often the first thing I will do is I’ll look at the couch where we have maybe blankets from when we were watching TV the night before. And the pillows are all strewn.

[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:17:13] Speaker A: I will fold the blankets, I’ll plump the pillows and get them all set so that the couch just looks peaceful and reset and restful, even though I’m not going to sit on it at all during the day. But that really helps me understand why I do that.

[00:17:28] Speaker B: You know what? So here’s the word that I think you’re describing. Stabilizing.

[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:17:34] Speaker B: You’re not. You’re not catching up. Today is not a catch up day. Today is a stabilizing day.

[00:17:39] Speaker A: Yeah.

[00:17:40] Speaker B: Because yesterday was a hard day or last night I didn’t get enough sleep. So today we stabilize. And there will be a day this week where my brain clicks into gear and says, oh, we need to catch up on a few things, but today we’re just going to stabilize.

[00:17:59] Speaker A: So Good.

[00:18:00] Speaker B: Okay, here is another question we got from your group. Why does a tidy house feel so peaceful once we get there, but it’s so hard to sustain? Is there an HSP answer to that?

[00:18:16] Speaker A: Oh, I’m going to have to think about that one.

[00:18:18] Speaker B: Okay, well, I can. I can start.

[00:18:21] Speaker A: Go for it.

[00:18:21] Speaker B: Okay.

You know, the question is so good because I think so many of us have had that moment where the house is finally tidy and we think, oh, this is how I want to live for the rest of my life. That, you know, everything’s where it’s supposed to be. And from my understanding of hsps, and you can tell me if I’m off. A tidy house can feel like your nervous system just exhaled it. Just said, there’s nothing screaming at me right now. There’s nothing that is dysregulating me. But then two days later, you know, life is happening. And there are different kinds of clutter. There is the day to day clutter. There’s the mail coming in, the shoes migrate.

There are water bottles everywhere. Right.

And then you think, why can’t I keep it like this?

Tidying and sustaining are two different skills.

[00:19:20] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:19:21] Speaker B: Getting the house tidy as a project. Sustaining the house is a rhythm.

And so oftentimes I know for somebody with my personality, I do really well in project mode.

Rhythm is hard for me. How? Well, how? I mean, I know every HSP is their own unique person, but do you think there’s a difference between rhythm and project for your community?

[00:19:50] Speaker A: Well, I’ll tell you what’s coming to

[00:19:52] Speaker A: mind as I’m listening to you is

[00:19:54] Speaker A: that for some of us, yes, we

[00:19:56] Speaker A: have that exhale when we get things looking the way that we would love it to. But there’s two. There’s two things. One is that I continuously underestimate the time it will take for me to wrap something up. Like, I’ll get immersed in something, but then I don’t give myself time while I still have energy to consolidate it, to pull it back together. You. You and I have talked about how I recently discovered that my office system, I’ve needed to include project boxes. I not only have clipboards and binders, but I have these project boxes that I put things away in, and I have a shelving unit specifically for them so that I can get put out of the way. So it’s not.

[00:20:39] Speaker B: Look.

[00:20:40] Speaker A: Doesn’t look like a bomb has gone off.

[00:20:41] Speaker B: Right.

[00:20:41] Speaker A: But even though I implemented this system and it’s been working really well, I found myself still leaving things all spread out because I wasn’t saving the time. I wasn’t creating the time. I would get to the point where I was so depleted. Yeah, I’d made good progress on the project, but then I was just spent and I was like, oh, yeah. And when I’m learning to do is to literally schedule the time on my calendar as part of my work block that says 15 minutes to put the things back in the box and basically to maintain the system.

[00:21:16] Speaker B: Right.

[00:21:16] Speaker A: And so I think part of it is like, maybe it’s a form of time optimism or we just feel like things shouldn’t.

[00:21:23] Speaker B: Right.

[00:21:24] Speaker A: Take the time that they do. But here’s the other thing that occurs to me, and that is for many of us as HSPs, you know, part of being an HSP is that our nervous systems are always on high alert and they’re always ready to go into fight flight, freeze or fawn. But there’s actually another nervous system response that doesn’t get a lot of press, and it’s called frenzy. Yes, it is the go, go, go, do, do, do, produce, produce, produce.

And when an HSP is on a frenzy, they may look productive, they may be getting projects done, but they’re kind of like a Tasmanian devil, and they’re just whirling and swirling and just leaving this almost scorched earth kind of disaster in their wake. And when we finally come back in. Because it’s a dysregulation. It’s a form of dysregulation. When we finally calm down enough and we look around, we’re like, what did we just do?

[00:22:19] Speaker B: Right?

[00:22:19] Speaker A: You know, sometimes we just started something brand new. We started a whole new hobby out of nowhere. And you know how quickly that can just take over and multiply. And then looking at what we’ve just done while in this frenzied state can be super, super discouraging. So one of the things that I, that I’ve done is I’ve gotten good at noticing when I’m having that kind of compulsive feeling like, okay, I’ve got to, I’ve got to produce. I’ve got to do right. And I don’t let myself go big. You know the expression go big or go home? Sometimes we can do that.

[00:22:56] Speaker B: Yes.

[00:22:57] Speaker A: And I’m like, no, start small.

[00:22:59] Speaker B: Right?

[00:23:00] Speaker A: Start small. And then the mess I make, the disorder I create is much, much more containable.

[00:23:07] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:23:07] Speaker A: But it’s taken me many, many years to learn that the go big urge is something I’ve got to really, really pull in because otherwise it’s going to cost me.

[00:23:17] Speaker B: Well, and you know, that is taught to us by tv, by, you know, oh, I gutted my garage this week. I gutted, you know, that kind of stuff. And instead of saying, you know, because nobody stands up and cheers when you gut your silverware drawer. No, but your silverware drawer can be a place of peace for you. And you can start there and you can move out. We’re going to come back next week and we’re going to continue this conversation with four more questions.

[00:23:46] Speaker A: Kathi, before we wrap up, if someone is listening right now and thinking, oh, my goodness, I need more of this kind of help, this kind of decluttering and home management help in my real life, what would you recommend they do?

[00:23:59] Speaker B: If you are resonating with what we’re talking about here, if you want to go deeper in your clutter free conversations, may I invite you to our Clutter Free Academy group on Facebook.

There you will join other people who say that clutter is an issue for them and they would like some help with it. And that’s where we help each other. And that’s what this is all about. First of all, you’re not going to feel so alone. And second of all, you’re going to get lots of practical help. So if you just go to Facebook and search for Clutter Free Academy, it’s going to pop up. Kathy Lips Clutter Free Academy. There are some copycats out there. Just make sure it’s a big group. If it has thousands in it, that’s the one you want to be in. It has 24. That’s not your group friend. You’ll have to answer a couple of questions because we like to vet everybody who’s coming in there, but I promise there’s there are no trick answers. We want you in there. You are going to get so much from that group and we are so grateful that you want to be a part of it.

[00:24:58] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to Grit and Grace, the podcast for highly sensitive Christian women.

I hope this episode leaves you feeling encouraged, equipped to thrive, and ready to take one small stabilizing step in your home.

Be sure to follow in your favorite podcast app and share this episode with a friend.

Now, if you’re brand new to the whole HSP concept, come take the Am I a Highlight? Sensitive Person quiz. You’ll find that link in the show notes.

And remember, God created you. Sensitive In Christ, you are always strong.

If this episode has helped you feel a little less alone as an HSP, that’s exactly what happens every single day inside the Sensitive and Strong Community Cafe. The Cafe is a Christ centered community for highly sensitive women who are learning to stop pushing, pretending and performing and start moving through life with more compassion, clarity and courage. You don’t have to figure all of this out by yourself. The Cafe is a place where you’ll find camaraderie with like minded HSPeeps and you’ll never ever have to explain yourself because we all get it.

To learn more, simply go to CheriGregory.com / cafe that’s C H E R I G R E G O R Y Com Cafe and you’ll also find the link in the show notes.